ReneJK

07/03/14, 17:16
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire (Articles)

Please excuse my bad French , I am dutch :-)
After investigation the last few months I have made the following Breitling 765 article, I hope you enjoy

S'il vous plaît excuser mon mauvais français, je suis Hollandais :-)
Après enquête, les quelques derniers mois, j'ai fait la Breitling 765 article suivant, j'espère que vous apprécierez

Breitling 765 AVI investigation 1953 to 1962

(google translation : http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=fr&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fbreitlingsource.com%2FphpBB2%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D11%26t%3D52533 )

first published Nov 1st 2013 on breitlingsource.com, many changes since the initial draft

[image]

When I did my little investigation on the early Navitimers and the bead count on the bezel
http://breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=36494&p=267358
I also kept a list of all ‘all black’ 765’s I encountered . As living life got in the way I never did much with that data until recently.

Now I am slowly compiling the data I gathered and here are some of my preliminary findings .
Please keep in mind that this is probably incomplete as I am working with a very limited dataset of approx 28 - 30 pieces. There are more ‘all black’ 765’s out there on the web but I was unable to get meaningful data from them like serial numbers etc but the total number of ‘all black’ 765’s I could find is limited

On the approx 30 watches I gathered data on there are some strange things.

1. 70 % seems to come from 1953 , with the next watches from 1959 , 1960, 1961 and then 1962.

2. Evidence seems to point to a 2nd run of ‘Digital’ AVI’s in 1960. Whether this was a new order or a ‘use up’ of old parts we will most likely never know (Ubik/Yaffle , thanks for pointing this out to me) but since these 1960 Digital models have the larger beads on the bezel, a newer type of hands and Geneve on the dial I assume this was a 2nd run or special order for these models.

3. There seem to be an equal division between 'Digital Date window' watches and 'Analog subdial' watches. Of the 27 watches (1953 to 1962) 13 pcs are 'analog' and 14 pcs are 'Digital' . Based on the small number of watches I have seen this might be an error due to the very small amount of watches but it is something to watch for as I grow this list

4. All ‘All Black 765 AVI” have a steel bezel which is held in place by 3 screws. The screw holes are not in a specific place in the bezel but can be in several places. The screw holes I observed were in the following places : 1-5-9 , 2-6-10 , 3-7-11 , 4-8-12 . The screw placing seems to have no bearing to either serial number or build . This Bezel is used from 1953 to 1962. The 'Click' bezel without screws was first used on the black/white 765 AVI's and Co-Pilots and the earliest 'new' model I have seen is from 1962 (private watch in my possession) which is a black/white 765 AVI with a deeply stamped caseback

5. Watches can have a gilded V178 or a non-gilded V178 movement. They can also have the BOW and WOG import codes or no code at all. Again there seems to be no logic to the madness here and either movement can be found throughout the 1953 serial range

All 1953 ‘All Black 765 AVI” watches have a deeply stamped 765 in the middle of the caseback with the AVI model name below the 765 ref number , however some watches have the AVI stamped in the middle and the 765 below that, this is the case with 2 of the 1961 watches 938333 & 938464 which may point to a small batch of cases that was marked such, manufactured in 1961.

[image]

[image]

<the below paragraph about army engravings is unconfirmed !!!! >

Some of the watches I have seen also have an extra number engraved on the back below the 'AVI' stamp. One Owner was told by the original watch owner that this is a serial number from the Italian airforce. If this is correct , and I have no reason to doubt it, there are All black AVI's out there that were purchased by the italian airforce and I assume these were handed to their pilots and/or navigators as tools of the trade and returned after service . The 'Italian airforce' pieces are again a combination of 'digital' and 'analog' watches where the extra number does not seem to follow any serial number range (see list below) where 827818 has number 421 engraved and is a "digital' version whereas 827833 has number 414 and is a 'analog' version.


Some sources also site the French Airforce as origin for the extra 3 digits. 1 Italian forum

http://orologi.forumfree.it/?t=63469678 and
1 french http://forum.chronomania.net/mix_entry.php?id=203319#.UpiMHHdFbwk

"the number of French Air Force assignment engraved on the back (52x)
Probably this serial was attributed to a military laboratory as cataloging,
with subsequent delivery to the various department, For many years this type
of watch and follow and 'the 2nd I see with the assignment (at this time and
the other' in the network and the owners have pointed out that 'the first time
I noticed the attribution of this model)"


How and where these fit into the Military categories for either French or Italian Airforces is currently still unknown and uncertain and needs to be investigated, also proof needs to be provided before this can be accepted as fact


Rumour 2:

in 1952/1953, the unproven rumors go, Breitling was in intense negotiations w/ the French Airforce and the AVI was developed based on the ref. 765, adapting the 30 minute counter to 15 minutes and adding the 12h bezel - prototypes or a small series were delivered and then the political connections of Breguet/Vixa changed the tender specs to add the flyback functions and Breitling lost the contract. Unsubstantiated, unproven and probably unprovable today, as most corporate documents were not passed on to the new trademark owner, Mr. Schneider. Probably still lying somewhere in a safe

[image]

</unconfirmed>





The chronology of models as I understand it is as follows (this of course is a one persons POV and I welcome comments)

As with the early all black Navitimers the first indicator of the age of the watch is the bead count and size of the beads. More beads is older , counting beads however is more difficult as the 3 screws in the bezel delete some of the beads. But in general the 53 models have 11 beads between the V and the 1 on the bezel , 1959 to 1962 have 96 beads with 8 separate beads between the V and 1 on the bezel , See pictures below for clarification.

[image]

[image]

Due to the number of beads on the bezel, the bezel itself is of course also a different shape

[image]

[image]



Initial model (see below), with the ‘date window’ as a minute counter, no “Geneve” on the dial (Breitling moved to Geneve in 1953) an a-typical Chrono hand which is (for lack of a better word) ‘tapered’ and quite narrow hour and minute hands with long narrow tips .

[image]


Then Breitling released the next model (see below), it now has “Geneve” on the dial so I assume it was released after Breitling moved to Geneve in 1953 . Therefor I assume this model was released in 1953/54/55. The other change you will notice is the change in the Chronometer hand, which is now shaped as an arrow. This model still has the quite narrow hour and minute hands with long narrow tips

[image]



For the next model (see below) Breitling seems to have moved away from the date window minute counter and we see a ‘normal’ circular subdial with a hand. The watch overall bears strong resemblence to the Breguet type 20 released in 1956. In chronological perspective this watch may have been very well released around 1956 as well. The hands are still the same as the previous version with the exception (of course) of the minute counter which is quite fat and with lume inside

[image]

<THIS ABOVE MODEL MARKS THE END OF 1953 SERIAL NUMBER MODELS AS FAR AS I COULD SEE>


Now the Anomaly ,

Evidence points to the fact that in 1960 a series was released that had again the date window minute counter.

The watch has thicker hour and minute hands than previously released versions with the date window and have serial numbers from 1960, and less but bigger 'rice beads' on the bezel. I have seen 4 watches that look like this .

[image]

The next model (see below) and what I believe is the final version of the ‘all black AVI’s” with a late 1962 serial number. Thicker hands, and the same bead bezel as described above

[image]

During the 1960ies Breitling has also allowed the 765 AVI to be 'co-branded' by Kronometer Stockholm, I have only seen 2 watches , see below for 1

[image]


The 1953 serial number range that I investigated runs from 8269xx/826987 to 827833 , this seems to indicate roughly 1000 cases which were used from 1953 to 1958 (6 years) to build watches. I have contacted Breitling Suisse and asked them how many 765 AVI's were build in 1953 but sadly they have told me they do not have this information (weird, because they could tell me exactly how many V72 Navitimers they build in 54/55 which is 1200 pcs)


Copyright notice :

This work in progress article was written by Rene Kesting / Dracha. If you would like to use this information on your website or somehow publish it please give credit to the writer , and link back to this article and this website as this info was first published on Breitlingsource . I couldnt have done this without all the info on Breitlingsource with a special thanks to Yaffle/Ubik and WatchFred for their feedback and finding me watches to add to the list.
If you would like to contact me or if you have an all black Breitling AVI 765 you would like to sell please contact me : Rene@Kesting.nl

ReneJK

07/03/14, 17:18

@ ReneJK
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

Since there doesn't seem to be a comprehensive list with Breitling 765 models that were released over the years I decided to make one.

This is the list as I consider 'correct' , and as always things will change as I see or notice more differences or dates that need to change. The early history of these pieces I investigated here http://breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=50565

1953

1953 , the birth of the 'Original' 765 AVI

[image]

1955

Around 1955 we see 2 models.
1 with a 'digital' date aperture minute counter

[image]

and 1 with a normal subdial layout

[image]

I believe that the approx number of AVI watches made, Analog and Digital combined, between 1953 & 1958 is 1000 pcs. This number is based on the serial numbers I collected


1960

still 2 models like above with the only change being the larger beads on the bezel and 'fatter' hands on both models

[image]

and the 'normal' dial layout with subdial but also 'fatter' hands and larger beads on the bezel

[image]


1962 / 63 / 64

Somewhere between 1962 and 1964 Breitling changed from an all black dial to a 'reverse' panda dial. I have seen indisputable examples with a '62 case number both in all black . and the earliest 'reverse panda' I know of also has a '62 case number . note that the 1962 / 63 / 64 765 AVI has a steel bezel

[image]

1965

1965 marked a significant change in this family of watches . The Bezel is changed from steel to anodized aluminium And the model designation changed from 'AVI' to 'CP'. The CP stands for Co-Pilot (The Raquel Welsh watch is actually a AVI , not a Co-pilot)

[image]

there was also a model with a slight variation in the bezel

[image]

1966

In addition to the 'normal' CP with black anodized bezel a 'Yachting' model with a 15 minute countdown subdial and bezel was added to the lineup , both models were sold concurrently

[image]

1967

The yachting (765 CP) model received a newly designed handset

[image]

1969

Between 1967 and 1969 Breitling stoppedr using a separate name for these on the case and they only had a reference number . So we say goodbye to the Co-Pilot name as well. An extended family we have now . the 7650 , larger than the previous 765

[image]

a newly designed yachting model 7650

[image]

and we even see a 24 hour model the 1765 Unitime

[image]

approx number of 1765 watches made, is 1000 pcs. This number is based on the serial numbers I collected , runs from 1276000 to 1276999. However a batch of these cases was used to make 'TopTime' versions . 12 hour watches with the V7736 and V178 movement . These watches were given the reference 1765/36 when equipped with the 7736 movement or left with 1765 if they have the V178 movement . 1765 Toptimes typically have a serial number in the 1276300 - 1276399 range but have been seen with serial numbers in the 12768xx range as well

When these TopTimes were made is currenty not known but I assume the 1765 Unitime was not a 'bestseller' and they used part of the cases to build the 1765/36 before (or concurrent) with the release of the 7656 as the dial and hands are Identical to the 7656


Also somewhere in 1969 a separate ref number was given to the yachting model
the ref 7660


[image]

<insert big cased watches here :-) >

1975

For a few years it was very quiet on the 765X and X765 front. Until in 1975 Breitling released the 7656 'Top Time'

[image]

ReneJK

07/03/14, 17:24

@ ReneJK
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

a few of my watches :-)

[image]

f.ari

07/03/14, 17:36
(Modifié par f.ari
le 07/03/14, 18:42)


@ ReneJK
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

Hello

Congratulation for this beautiful BREITLING collection

we like the same models also thank you for this superb reviewed above


I recognized two of my Breitling in this post

avi 765 (third photo)

and

avi 765 engraved 452

it is a real pleasure to see someone else who loves these vintage chronographs


these pleasant shared your information with forum members

F.ARI

ReneJK

07/03/14, 18:30

@ f.ari
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

Thank you everyone !

Yes some of the pictures i borrowed from the forum and mr ari as I do not (yet) have all the watches i need to make the article


As you can see i have quite a passion for vintage breitling and have a nice collection , a few more than on the picture ;-)

Cord
Rene

regalis
[image]
07/03/14, 17:57

@ ReneJK
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

» a few of my watches :-)
»
»Thanks for sharing :ok:
This is a great collection, as we can see here.

---
"Your time is gone!"

Canard Sauvage
[image]
Au cœur des Alpes,
07/03/14, 21:26

@ ReneJK
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

Congrats for your collection and thanks for sharing. I love the yachting models. Never heard of them before. :ok:

---
God save the Triple.

Antoinerob
[image]
04/10/14, 18:45

@ Canard Sauvage
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

double post

Lucchese

21/02/17, 11:05

@ ReneJK
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

Hi,
Thank you very much for this great review (and collection!)

I have a question about the CP 765 panda dial. I've noticed that there is two versions of the dial : one with the 3 subdials with the same diameter and another one with the left sub dial bigger than the others.

Do you know why? Or if one is earlier than the other?
Thank you very much.:ok:

ReneJK

21/02/17, 12:52

@ Lucchese
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

» Hi,
» Thank you very much for this great review (and collection!)
»
» I have a question about the CP 765 panda dial. I've noticed that there is
» two versions of the dial : one with the 3 subdials with the same diameter
» and another one with the left sub dial bigger than the others.
»
» Do you know why? Or if one is earlier than the other?
» Thank you very much.:ok:

What I noticed it that until 1963 the 765 AVI w/ Black/white dial the subdials were almost equal size

from 1964 until 1965 the 765 AVI have noticeably bigger minute counter subdials and from 1965 onwards all 765 CP and 7650 also had the larger & bigger 15 minute subdials

so in short :

765 AVI from 1953 to 1963 (both all black dials and black white dials) the subdials were almost equal size

765 AVI 1964 + 1965 had a larger 15 minute counter subdial

765 CP and 7650 from 1965 onwards also has the larger 15 minute counter subdial


765 AVI has stainless steel bezel
765 CP & 7650 has black aluminium bezel

I hope this helps ?

Cord
Rene

Lucchese

21/02/17, 13:13

@ ReneJK
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

Thank you Rene,
That's really clear now!!:ok:

Nicolas (Modérateur)
[image]
07/03/14, 17:28

@ ReneJK
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

Thank you very much for this great interesting amazing huge article !

Nicolas

---
[image]

Exupery
[image]
07/03/14, 18:38

@ ReneJK
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

Merci! Super article.
Cheers mate

---
Proverbe: "A man with a watch knows the time. A man with two watches is never sure"

Antoinerob
[image]
04/10/14, 18:48

@ ReneJK
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

Hi René,

Nice article, thanks for sharing.

I am attaching a picture of my "new" 1966 vintage co-pilot. It is also discussed on the Breitling forum.

What do you think? I understand that the double signed Breitling Lip makes it a French sold watch back in the days.

Greetings from Paris-France,

Antoine

[image]

MARC27

24/02/17, 09:50

@ Antoinerob
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

» Hi René,
»
» Nice article, thanks for sharing.
»
» I am attaching a picture of my "new" 1966 vintage co-pilot. It is also
» discussed on the Breitling forum.
»
» What do you think? I understand that the double signed Breitling Lip makes
» it a French sold watch back in the days.
»
» Greetings from Paris-France,
»
» Antoine
»
» [image]

Une petite soeur :-)

[image]

basilbar

20/02/17, 19:56

@ ReneJK
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

Bonsoir
J'ai la co-pilot AVI 765 de 1953
Révisée par un horloger Independant de Reims qui l'a conservée dans son "jus"
Combien ça vaut ?
Merci

ReneJK

20/02/17, 20:28

@ basilbar
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

» Bonsoir
» J'ai la co-pilot AVI 765 de 1953
» Révisée par un horloger Independant de Reims qui l'a conservée dans son
» "jus"
» Combien ça vaut ?
» Merci

Bonjour
do you gave a picture ?
prices range between 6500-15000 euro depending on Originality and condition

aves-vous une photo?
Les prix varient entre 4500-15000 euros selon l'originalité et l'état

Cord
Rene

basilbar

21/02/17, 08:20

@ ReneJK
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

» » Bonsoir
» » J'ai la co-pilot AVI 765 de 1953
» » Révisée par un horloger Independant de Reims qui l'a conservée dans son
» » "jus"
» » Combien ça vaut ?
» » Merci
»
» Bonjour
» do you gave a picture ?
» prices range between 6500-15000 euro depending on Originality and condition
»
»
» aves-vous une photo?
» Les prix varient entre 4500-15000 euros selon l'originalité et l'état
»
» Cord
» Rene

basilbar

21/02/17, 08:31

@ basilbar
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

» » » Bonsoir
» » » J'ai la co-pilot AVI 765 de 1953
» » » Révisée par un horloger Independant de Reims qui l'a conservée dans
» son
» » » "jus"
» » » Combien ça vaut ?
» » » Merci
» »
» » Bonjour
» » do you gave a picture ?
» » prices range between 6500-15000 euro depending on Originality and
» condition
» »
» »
» » aves-vous une photo?
» » Les prix varient entre 4500-15000 euros selon l'originalité et l'état
» »
» » Cord
» » Rene

avant restauration
les aiguilles n'ont pas ete changées
je vais chercher des photosplus recentes
bonne journée

trum

21/02/17, 15:53

@ ReneJK
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

» » Bonsoir
» » J'ai la co-pilot AVI 765 de 1953
» » Révisée par un horloger Independant de Reims qui l'a conservée dans son
» » "jus"
» » Combien ça vaut ?
» » Merci
»
» Bonjour
» do you gave a picture ?
» prices range between 6500-15000 euro depending on Originality and condition
»
»
» aves-vous une photo?
» Les prix varient entre 4500-15000 euros selon l'originalité et l'état
»
» Cord
» Rene

I recognize here the simplicity of English people and what make forums more interesting oversea.
Nice collection.

ReneJK

21/02/17, 19:05

@ trum
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

»
» I recognize here the simplicity of English people and what make forums more
» interesting oversea.
» Nice collection.

Well, I could try to write it all in french , but as I am Dutch that would really mess things up :lol2: so I write in English and use google translate :ok:

jean luc desplats
[image]
Page d'accueil21/02/17, 20:43

@ ReneJK
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

Good evening

Thanks for your beautiful collection and your explications

One of the rare sweden Avi 765 is in my collection and I think this is the watch of your scan

All my best regards

Your

Jean Luc


[image]

[image]

[image]

[image]

[image]

ReneJK

21/02/17, 20:52

@ jean luc desplats
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

» Good evening
»
» Thanks for your beautiful collection and your explications
»
» One of the rare sweden Avi 765 is in my collection and I think this is the
» watch of your scan
»
» All my best regards
»
» Your
»
» Jean Luc

Hi Jean Luc , thank you for posting !
I would definitely estimate a top price for that , it is a stunning example
Rgds
Rene

f.ari

22/02/17, 01:22

@ ReneJK
 

Breitling AVI 765 Histoire

Hi Sir ReneJK

To share with you some Breitling

I can't share with you all

because there are too many photos in my archives I take a few

i sell many watches of my collection

i just conserve this Breitling Avi 765 in New old stock condition

buy from his first owner an old man

his wife give this Avi like a gift and he never worn it ...

i will never sell it

with Zenith A.Roma Cairelli

Sorry for forum member's

to be boring because a lot of pictures

but I'm sure Mr. Rene will be happy to see them

[image]
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A rare Navitimer signed UTI new old stock sold too

[image]

rare Breitling Avi 765 15min sold too

[image]

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[image][image][image]
[image][image]

another AVI 765 Military
[image][image][image][image][image]

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[image]
another avi military sold too


[image][image]

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Rare Navitimer AOPA Valjoux 72 sold too
[image][image][image][image][image][image][image][image][image]
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[image]Breitling Avi 765 Raquel Weilch sold too
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[image][image][image][image]


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278173 messages dans 22921 discussions, 37955 usagers enregistrés, 298 usagers en ligne (3 enregistrés, 295 invités) :
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